PDA

View Full Version : Sound Of Lies-Off (Championship)


ericcd
10-31-2007, 09:17 PM
Here they are...

Haggischomper
10-31-2007, 09:42 PM
I weep, Bastardo, I weep.... :D

I honestly have no idea which tune to click on. Meltdown.

mystic_spiral_3
10-31-2007, 09:47 PM
I like both, but when I first got the cd, "Trouble" was one of the songs I loved from the first listen, so it gets my vote.

Truscott
10-31-2007, 11:10 PM
Both are obviously top-shelf, but I think I'll have to go with the simple beauty of the title track this evening.

jcarlile
10-31-2007, 11:41 PM
It has to be Trouble. My all time favorite Jayhawks song!

Haggischomper
10-31-2007, 11:53 PM
I think that too, Joyce. And then I get Sound of Lies going in my head and....ach, I just can't decide!

Bryn
11-01-2007, 03:07 AM
I knew this would end in tears, it's all good fun until someone looses an eye:p

Calexico
11-01-2007, 06:40 AM
Trouble here too but it really should be considered a draw.

greekguy
11-01-2007, 09:48 AM
Trouble. Best Jayhawk song ever, top 5 song ever made.

Pillow Pants
11-01-2007, 09:12 PM
"Trouble" is too close to "Red's Song".

Chaosdan
11-01-2007, 09:17 PM
Trouble for me. It's not Haywire, but on SOL it's the next best thing.

sacred roots
11-01-2007, 11:56 PM
"Trouble" is too close to "Red's Song".

Really? You've only told us that, what, maybe a million times. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even though you have some strange compulsion to keep repeating yourself keep repeating yourself.

My opinion? They're aren't similar at all. "Trouble" is a classic -- a beautiful, moving song that Gary Louris himself has called one of his favorite Jayhawks songs. "Red's Song" is a decent song, though I'm not nearly as fond of it as many here are, especially the version that appears on TTGG. The live renditions from back in the day, however, were usually quite strong, making the song come alive in a way almost entirely absent from the studio version. And i gotta admit, i was pretty thrilled to hear it unearthed twice during that "final" run at First Ave. in December 2003.

Good God, Glacier, you're a boring tool. Is is really that hard to come up with new material? Or has your shallow bag of inane "wisdom" finally run dry? A momentous day in Fanpage history!

Oh yeah, LOL.

Chaosdan
11-02-2007, 06:06 AM
If Trouble does sound like Red's Song (which I can't hear myself), it's a far superior reworking...

Haggischomper
11-03-2007, 01:19 PM
Voted Trouble in the end.

Pillow Pants
11-04-2007, 02:42 AM
Red's Song = Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands

Trouble = Every Rose Has It's Thorn

Imagery, music and vocals on Red's Song are on another level. One tells a story in artistic flashes, the other tries to explain it to you.

If you don't think the music is similar at all(especially the intro), you need to get your hearing checked.

"I can't stop, I can't stop those flashing reds"

David Farrel
11-04-2007, 03:59 AM
You know, when I read a post with such thought, insight and dexterity I know you must have thought long and hard about it.

But forgive me PP, but there's some line's in that song you obviously love so much that just ring true


You were so above us all
It was just the blind leading the blind
I got my feet back on the ground
It's better than being alone

JoMama
11-04-2007, 04:28 AM
Pillow Pants, are you getting enough zinc in your diet?

Chaosdan
11-04-2007, 04:55 AM
If you don't think the music is similar at all(especially the intro), you need to get your hearing checked.

Pardon?

sacred roots
11-04-2007, 09:50 AM
Imagery, music and vocals on Red's Song are on another level. One tells a story in artistic flashes, the other tries to explain it to you.



Sounds good, but is still meaningless drivel, especially when applied to the two songs in question here. Speaking as a former rock critic, i know hoo-hah when i see it. ;)


The lyrics in "Red's Song" are relatively simplistic, even mundane at times (not that there's anything wrong with that):

You said I hold the door right
You said I've gone this far
You've been watching over
The dreams that kept us from
What's real well they seem
So foolish now
How can I live without you
How can I make it through

and

I was on the floor
When I ran you out my door

Sure, there's the "flashing reds" imagery, but, frankly, there's not a whole lot going on in this song lyrically -- at least for me. I find the sprightly melody far more attractive. And, as i said before, the live performances from the era almost always elevated this song above the level of "average."

"Trouble," OTOH, is wonderfully written -- complex, well-crafted lyrics that combine with the beautiful melody to produce something greater than the individual components. In other words, a great song.

We were stranded on the vine
Destitute and shaken
Looking for a sign
Left hung out to dry
Our backs against the wall
Stoned out of our minds

and

There's a little bit of truth in every lie
You were so above us all

and the repeated refrain, which just oozes with sadness

It's better than being alone

The opening lines by themselves have more lyrical wollop than a dozen "Red's Song"s

Trouble that's what we had
And everything that goes around
Comes around in a bittersweet lament

Masterful. Perlman is a great wordsmith and this is a classic example of his skill. I'm pretty sure that Bret Michaels can't even spell "bittersweet lament," let alone know what it means. :D


"Red's Song" is a solid middle-of-the-packer, but it's not even in the same league as "Trouble." Not even close.


To continue with the ill-advised Dylan analogy:

Red's Song = Mama, You Been On My Mind

Trouble = It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

Chaosdan
11-04-2007, 04:00 PM
Red's Song = The Macarena
Trouble = The Okey-cokey

Pillow Pants
11-04-2007, 05:36 PM
Pillow Pants, are you getting enough zinc in your diet?

I did have food poisoning the last couple days, so maybe that's it.

Pillow Pants
11-04-2007, 05:52 PM
The lyrics in "Red's Song" are relatively simplistic, even mundane at times (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Very simplistic, but they do the job.



Sure, there's the "flashing reds" imagery, but, frankly, there's not a whole lot going on in this song lyrically -- at least for me. I find the sprightly melody far more attractive. And, as i said before, the live performances from the era almost always elevated this song above the level of "average."


The song is above average, and the live version is even better.

The "flashing reds" imagery is top notch.




"Trouble," OTOH, is wonderfully written -- complex, well-crafted lyrics that combine with the beautiful melody to produce something greater than the individual components. In other words, a great song.

"Trouble" sounds like Bon Jovi trying to write "Red's Song". Put a bunch of bloat in there, try to explain everything and ram it down your throat. "Red's Song" is free, artistic expression. I think we know where that aspect comes from.....




The opening lines by themselves have more lyrical wollop than a dozen "Red's Song"s


You forgot about the indetical opening music lines.....


Wasn't Perlman involved in Red's Song too? I'm not sure what he wrote, but he is credited.



Masterful. Perlman is a great wordsmith and this is a classic example of his skill. I'm pretty sure that Bret Michaels can't even spell "bittersweet lament," let alone know what it means. :D


Trouble is a nice song, but it's no Red's Song. Especially the live versions.

I agree with you that some of the lyrics on Trouble are pretty good. But the "oooh oh oh oohs" at the ends and this section just ruins the song for me:

"We were stranded on the vine
Destitute and shaken
Looking for a sign
Left hung out to dry
Our backs against the wall
Stoned out of our minds"


Those come off like Bon Jovi or Linkiln Park lyrics.

Jedey
11-04-2007, 06:06 PM
I'll take Trouble over Red's Song.

Truscott
11-04-2007, 06:29 PM
You forgot about the indetical opening music lines.....You mean these opening lines (in tab form, albeit simplified):

Red's Song:

e-5-5---4-4---3-3---4---3--0--
b-5--5--5--5--3--3--5---3--2--
g-6---6-6---6-4---4-6---0--2--
d-7-----6-----5-----6---0--2--
a-----------------------2--0--
E-----------------------------


Trouble:
e-9-----------9------------10--------------------------------|
B-10----10---10-----10-----12------12----12s14---12--10------|
G-9---9-------9--9---------11--11------------------------11--|
D------------------------------------------------------------|
A------------------------------------------------------------|
E------------------------------------------------------------|

Having a chord and an appregio isn't exactly an uncommon way to start a song. That they both make use of this idea and incorporate it into their melodies does not make them 'identical' or even particularly similar.

Trouble uses the phrasing introduced in the intro (which is distinctly different from that in the Red's Song intro) for the melody, but instrumentally, there is a lot more departure from the riff used in its introduction. Like a good 8 bar solo, the song starts off simple, gradually crescendos before quickly settling back to the song's simple origins by the end.

Throughout the verses of Red's Song, the intro riff is continued and further developed in small ways. And while there are some interesting developments that keep the song from becoming overly predictable. But what makes Red's Song good isn't the instrumentation. It's Mark's singing. The instrumentation and even Gary's harmonies are vehicles for a well-sung song.

Trouble in executed marvelously in so many ways. That's not to say that Red's Song isn't bad. It's an excellent song. But Trouble is on a whole other level above.

BTW, I do hope you've recovered from the food poisoning. That's never a fun experience.

sacred roots
11-04-2007, 07:05 PM
You forgot about the indetical opening music lines.....

Didn't forgot about them at all, cuz they're not identical. Your continued comparison is just plain idiotic and worthy of no further mention, although i'm sure you'll continue to hammer it home again. And again. And again...

and the live version is even better

Where have i heard that before?


Those come off like Bon Jovi or Linkiln Park lyrics.

Funniest thing you've ever written? Horribly, tragically wrong and nonsensical, but still very very funny. As for the comparison, I'm not all that familiar with either of those groups, so i'll have to take your word for it.

Haggischomper
11-04-2007, 09:54 PM
"We were stranded on the vine
Destitute and shaken
Looking for a sign
Left hung out to dry
Our backs against the wall
Stoned out of our minds"


Those come off like Bon Jovi or Linkiln Park lyrics.

Hey, man, if yer gonna post stuff like that please put a spoiler in to warn us first. I got water shooting out my nose when I read that. I dunno, maybe you could preface your posts with a "****" or something? Thanks.

greekguy
11-05-2007, 03:38 PM
Can we assume that Trouble has won?

Let's do another album!!

goody59
11-05-2007, 10:02 PM
Yes, it's time to crown What Led Me To This Town.