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jcarlile
08-28-2014, 11:25 PM
WHAT. A. MESS.... but, I'm very happy to be seeing the band next weekend!!

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/273073971.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue

As his old band, now led by Gary Louris, carries on again without him, former Jayhawks co-frontman Mark Olson talks about the issues that led to their rupture.
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Gary Louris and Mark Olson, founders of the Jayhawks, when they reunited in 2009 around the duo album, "Ready for the Flood," a prelude to 2011's Jayhawks album "Mockingbird Time."

Photo: JEFF WHEELER, Star Tribune



When Minnesota’s best-known songwriting duo first split up in 1995, the story goes that they hugged it out and went their separate ways. The second time, however, was an all-out mess.

“In front of a bunch of people, Gary said, ‘Why don’t you hit me?’ ” Mark Olson recalled of the last time he saw his Jayhawks bandmate, Gary Louris, following a 2012 festival gig in Spain.

The Jayhawks had spent the previous year and a half touring with Olson at the center microphone onstage, singing harmoniously with Louris, but offstage they traveled separately and eventually suffered a final confrontation at tour’s end.

Two years later — as the Jayhawks carry on without Olson — the original founder of the critically lauded twang-rock band is still stewing over what went down between him and his former partner. Widely credited for sparking the late-’90s alt-country boom and influencing everyone from Wilco and Bon Iver to the Dixie Chicks, the pair’s warm sing-along songs such as “Blue” and “Waiting for the Sun” remain local radio staples 20 years later.

Olson’s beefs include rather typical band arguments over money and songwriting credits as well as Louris’ publicly acknowledged substance-abuse problems — he completed a recovery program at the end of 2012.

Louris declined to comment on specifics for this article. For Jayhawks fans, the clear news is this: The co-leaders of the band that Rolling Stone heralded as “Minnesotan to the bone” will almost certainly never perform or record together again.

“I don’t ever want to see Gary Louris again, nor do I want him singing my songs,” said Olson, who claims that Louris promised not to tour as the Jayhawks without him, a pre-condition to their 2011-2012 reunion.

Just as he did in 1995, though, Louris is leading the band on tour again without Olson. The shows — including a European trek in July and an upcoming two-night First Avenue stand Sept. 5-6 — are timed to reissues of the group’s three Louris-led 1997-2003 albums.

“I have the utmost respect for Mark Olson,” is all Louris said in a statement to the Star Tribune. “We have shared many great years together as a duo and with the Jayhawks, and I look back fondly on the legacy we have left behind.”

• • •

“A dream team sundered,” is how esteemed Rolling Stone writer David Fricke described it after Olson first quit the Jayhawks, “stranding his group in what-might-have-been land.”

The Jayhawks toured hard in 1995 but actually ended up in debt off their widely acclaimed second album for Rick Rubin’s American Recordings label, “Tomorrow the Green Grass.” Disappointed, Olson essentially opted to start a new life. He married fellow singer/songwriter Victoria Williams that year (they divorced in 2006) and moved to Joshua Tree, Calif. (where he still resides).

“I had just bought my first house and just gotten married — two huge things,” he recalled in a 2009 interview. He and Williams would later tour and record together as the Original Harmony Creek Dippers, but he would refuse requests for Jayhawks tunes at their shows.

Olson finally sang his Jayhawks songs again in 2005, when he and Louris reunited without the group for an acoustic tour. They did so again in 2009 after issuing the folky duo album “Ready for the Flood.” It looked like the old bandmates had formed a new bond after a decade apart.

Louris said in 2009, “What we do now sounds a whole lot like the Jayhawks I knew [early on], when it was just Mark and I writing songs and recording demos on acoustic guitars.”

Olson now says things started to go south when the Jayhawks re-entered the picture in 2010, leading up to their 2011 reunion album “Mockingbird Time” and subsequent tour.

He said he made it clear to Louris he had no intention of putting the old band back together and getting “into a situation where things are out of my control again.” The Jayhawks name is owned by Olson, Louris and co-founding bassist Marc Perlman. Two of them can outvote the third on business matters.

Perlman, who carried on the band with Louris after Olson quit, declined to comment for this article.

Another reason Olson said he resisted the idea of making a new Jayhawks record: He had his own album to promote, “Many Colored Kite,” issued by Rykodisc in July 2010. But that’s when his future wife, a Norwegian woman named Ingunn Ringvold — who also performed with him — ran into visa issues.

Ringvold was stopped at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and sent back to Norway by immigration officials who said she illegally entered the country to work as an entertainer. Facing about $20,000 in legal fees and unable to perform with Ringvold in the United States for more than two years, Olson said he felt forced into making the Jayhawks record and touring behind it for the money.

He became further embittered during work on the record, claiming he did “95 percent” of the songwriting on “Mockingbird Time.” At that time Louris was addicted to painkillers, as he has publicly acknowledged. Olson also contends the band overspent greatly on tour expenses, such as a bus, “trying to live like rock stars.” Olson says he refused to travel on the bus and drove by himself from gig to gig on the 2011-12 tours.

He wished he had called it off sooner, he said, but “there had been the investment and there were a lot of other people involved. The forward motion had started, and it was hard to stop once it got started.

“Because of my relationship with [Louris] for many years as a songwriting partner, I trusted him and went along with everything.”

• • •

Talking from his house in Joshua Tree this winter, Olson still sounded deeply rattled over his former band and songwriting partner but content to move on with his music career.

Ringvold’s visa issues have been cleared. Now married, the couple split their time between California and Norway, where Olson has been studying the language. They played some stateside shows last fall and did several in Europe, where Olson has enjoyed greater success as a solo artist. He has a new album in the can, “Goodbye Lizelle,” which will arrive Sept. 26 via the German label Glitterhouse.

Olson’s manager, Michael Nieves, said, “Mark is moving on, but he’s still very upset. He’s especially unhappy Gary is once again out there doing Jayhawks shows without him, which he told Mark and me personally he would never do again.”

Olson doesn’t deny that the 2011-2012 Jayhawks reunion tour helped raise his profile again. He still regrets doing it, though.

“[We] started getting our life back together” once the tour ended in 2012, he said. “That’s when I had time to reflect. That’s when I started to call on my family [in Minnesota] and said, ‘You guys aren’t going to believe this … ”

Louris, too, has moved on. He and the revamped Jayhawks are playing only a handful of the songs Olson co-wrote on tour. They returned from Europe in time to play HazelFest Aug. 2 at Minnesota’s famed Hazelden treatment facility, an event that celebrates addiction recovery.

“A lot of things kind of hit the wall” from 2010 to 2012, Louris said in a video interview to promote HazelFest. “I was so self-centered. Everything was about me. I couldn’t function. I think I probably had a mental breakdown.”

Olson applauded Louris’ recovery efforts but said, “The precepts [of rehab] are you go about making amends, and nothing like that has occurred.”



Staff writer Brandon Stahl contributed to this report.

Chris Riemenschneider • 612-673-4658

axeeugene
08-29-2014, 03:34 AM
I have only one thing to say: the fact that Bon Iver (a "band" that can't even spell its own goddamned name right) is mentioned in the same breath as The Jayhawks is a fucking travesty.

JoMama
08-29-2014, 06:43 AM
I have only one thing to say: the fact that Bon Iver (a "band" that can't even spell its own goddamned name right) is mentioned in the same breath as The Jayhawks is a fucking travesty.

They should have had you write the article, Andrew. That article was poorly edited, and really just a bunch of hooey. Why the Trib needed to go into something that's rather private is, sadly, what sells papers, but gosh, they could have focused on the re-issues, the exiting new tour, and left the sour grapes on the side of the plate...

ChiefCrowe
08-29-2014, 12:24 PM
Sad to hear this really... nothing we can do though :(

at least we got that tour and album!

Ordinarygirl
08-29-2014, 12:52 PM
There's two sides to every story, and only one person is talking in this article.

Regardless, I don't really want to see this kind of dirty laundry aired in public. I don't think fans need to know about it. Personally, I don't want to know about it. I just want to enjoy the music.

bryguy
08-29-2014, 12:53 PM
So many bands, friendships and relationships end this way. Sad to see nonetheless. Pretty raw. With such an intertwined history, I hope they can find a way to make it good.

bryguy
08-29-2014, 12:55 PM
There's two sides to every story, and only one person is talking in this article.

Regardless, I don't really want to see this kind of dirty laundry aired in public. I don't think fans need to know about it. Personally, I don't want to know about it. I just want to enjoy the music.

totally with you. it doesn't do anyone good (them or us) to have this aired like this.

BluesisBlood
08-29-2014, 09:08 PM
Reminds me a bit of the Crowes and Marc Ford. Very sad to see it go down this way but grateful they got another crack at it, despite the ending.
But yeah, that was a tough read. Have no problem with the Strib running it though. With the accusations Mark threw out, on the record i assume, you have to run that.
Clearly Mark wanted to vent publicly. Mission accomplished.

J. Chamberlain
08-29-2014, 10:27 PM
This truly is sad. I like both Mark and Gary's music. The Jayhawks are great, whether it's music from the SOL to RDM era, or the Mark era, or whatever. I appreciate their "Americana" output, along with their Rock/Pop/experimental stuff.

But it's just too bad that Gary and Mark couldn't work things out. I haven't looked at this board since I don't know when. I'm just seeing all this now, and it's bumming me out, reading about all the bad feelings etc.

IMHO, some (though not all) of the best Jayhawks stuff happened when the Gary and Mark vibe merged together - so now that will most likely never happen again.

I will buy Mark's new album "Good-bye Lizelle." I have a feeling that will be a real treat to hear. I will also pick up any new Jayhawks album (if that ever happens again) with the newer lineup.

Mark and Gary, maybe you can work things out again! Never say never, dudes! OK? I'm available as a mediator if you ever want to talk it out. :cool:

Runningpotleaf
09-02-2014, 01:44 PM
maybe this is repeated content, but it looked to have slightly different content so I am posting the link.

WHAT. A. MESS is right !!!

http://www.postbulletin.com/entertainment/daily-celebrities/article_05cd0cad-a705-52a3-8a2c-7f6d3a0a5bd5.html


"Louris declined to comment on specifics for this article. For Jayhawks fans, the clear news is this: The co-leaders of the band that Rolling Stone heralded as "Minnesotan to the bone" will almost certainly never perform or record together again."

"I don't ever want to see Gary Louris again, nor do I want him singing my songs," said Olson, who claims that Louris promised not to tour as the Jayhawks without him, a pre-condition to their 2011-2012 reunion"

axeeugene
09-02-2014, 02:37 PM
WHAT. A. MESS is right !!!

"I don't ever want to see Gary Louris again, nor do I want him singing my songs," said Olson, who claims that Louris promised not to tour as the Jayhawks without him, a pre-condition to their 2011-2012 reunion"

So just to recap: Guy quits band. Remaining members of the band carry on without him - to greater success, mind you, than they had when said guy was in the band - and guy grouses that they shouldn't have continued to call themselves by their name. Guy runs into money troubles and begs to be let back into said band. Band lets him back in, but his "precondition" for his supplication being accepted is that he gets what he wanted in the first place and band doesn't get to call themselves by their name without him. Guy quits band again and grouses with further vitriol in the press about not getting what he wants.

Some classy shit going on here.

I'll be very happy seeing THE JAYHAWKS at the Turf Club this Thursday, is about all I can say.

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 03:04 PM
when the guy who:

1. founded the band

2. named it

3. wrote most of the songs

...asks for someone to not use the name, it's probably time to move on, respectfully.


It just doesn't look good. The post-Olson years don't seem to appeal to anyone below 45, and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

axeeugene
09-02-2014, 03:44 PM
when the guy who:

1. founded the band

2. named it

3. wrote most of the songs

...asks for someone to not use the name, it's probably time to move on, respectfully.


It just doesn't look good. The post-Olson years don't seem to appeal to anyone below 45, and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

1) Haven't you got somewhere else to bang out your one note? Pathetic.
2) Since when is great music only the purview of the young?
3) Why does founding or naming a band give you special power? Syd Barrett founded and named Pink Floyd - should they have quit after the acid fried his brain? William S. Burroughs supplied the name for Steely Dan - should he have had creative control?
4) I'm sure there'll be about 20 people at each of their TC gigs this week <rolleyes>
5) Most of the songs - and almost all of the good ones during the Olson era - are co-writes, and almost half of the band's output doesn't include Olson.
6) Only one person is coming off like an asshole in this story, and it ain't Louris or Perlman.
7) Stop being such a goddamned moron. Oh...wait...

greekguy
09-02-2014, 04:08 PM
I am super happy that that fucker is no longer a part of the great band The Jayhawks.

He may be the worst singer in the history of the world. And I say that fully knowing that I've heard Axe sing.

Rock on Real Jayhawks, rock on.

NY Fan
09-02-2014, 04:41 PM
Some reactions to this article, and also the posts here:

- For the Jayhawks, that's a lot of dirty laundry in the press. Wow! I wonder if that was pre-cleanup Gary, and if it was, I wonder if now-clean Gary has any regrets. Maybe he does; maybe he doesn't!

- That said, Mark would have been better off keeping his mouth shut. He does himself no favors by airing this out, and the grapes are bitter...

- Kinda fun to see the old sides take shape on this board once again! For me, the board was the most fun before Mark came back - but then again, so was the band. When Mark returned, things got uncomfortable, since all the people here who preferred the band without him had to watch their step; the Mark-lovers emerged.

- Having said that, the relatively brief Mark II era did not lead to great success for the band - and it certainly didn't lead to an exciting era on this board. The shows were well received, but a ton of people here missed the dynamics and many of the songs from the SoL era.

- The incarnation of the band currently touring is absolutely my favorite. I'm glad Mark is gone, and I'm thrilled that Kraig is out with them now.

- My hope is that the Jayhawks will continue to make music live, in the studio, etc., and enjoy some degree of success.

That's all I've got! Fun stuff...

- Glenn

lukpac
09-02-2014, 04:46 PM
So just to recap: Guy quits band. Remaining members of the band carry on without him - to greater success, mind you, than they had when said guy was in the band - and guy grouses that they shouldn't have continued to call themselves by their name. Guy runs into money troubles and begs to be let back into said band. Band lets him back in, but his "precondition" for his supplication being accepted is that he gets what he wanted in the first place and band doesn't get to call themselves by their name without him. Guy quits band again and grouses with further vitriol in the press about not getting what he wants.

Some classy shit going on here.

Without knowing more, I hesitate to put all of the blame on Mark. We don't know (well, *I* don't know, anyway) exactly what went down, supposed "Why don’t you hit me?" comment aside. It's possible that Mark had/has some legitimate grips. I don't know. I don't want to blame Gary (and/or the rest of the band), but I don't think it's right to automatically let him off the hook either.

That said, regardless of however the StarTribune got wind of the situation initially, Mark certainly seemed to be dishing it out without restraint. It's unclear why, other than simply to vent, since he talks about "making amends" but also states "I don’t ever want to see Gary Louris again". Those two things don't jive. What was he trying to accomplish?

when the guy who:

1. founded the band

2. named it

3. wrote most of the songs

...asks for someone to not use the name, it's probably time to move on, respectfully.


It just doesn't look good. The post-Olson years don't seem to appeal to anyone below 45, and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

It's unclear if you're attempting a failed career at comedy, or if you're severely misguided, or if you're just a troll, but regardless, just the same shit, another day. Regarding your "points":

1. Regardless of who made first contact, Marc was there from the start and Gary was a half step behind. To claim that Marc and Gary are somehow less important historically than Mark is pretty absurd.

2. Uh, what? The person who named the band is important how? Are you suggesting that Led Zeppelin should have never existed since Keith Moon, who came up with the name, was never in the band?

3. Early on, yes, Mark wrote most of the songs. As time progressed, not so much. Obviously he had very little, if any, input in the Sound of Lies/Smile/Rainy Day Music songs. And some of the band's biggest hits - Waiting For The Sun, I'd Run Away, I'm Gonna Make You Love Me, Save It For A Rainy Day, etc - were written by Gary.

As far as not appealing to anyone under the age of 45, the fans I've seen and talked to would suggest otherwise. Do you have anything to substantiate that claim, or did you just make it up? Where is this mass of fans that enjoys the albums with Mark but not the albums without him?

As I've said before, if I had the choice of going to see Mark or Gary solo, my choice would be Gary in a heartbeat. That said, there are definitely lots of Mark songs that I like quite a bit; Pray For Me is one of my favorites from the band. I don't think it's fair to Mark to be trashing him, other than to say it's an unfortunate situation and Mark's response to it seems to be questionable at best.

JPM
09-02-2014, 04:52 PM
If Gary had promised Mark in both instances that he would not use the name without him, I don't think Gary comes of great - at all. That said I believe it would of been better for Mark not to air his views publicly.

lukpac
09-02-2014, 05:15 PM
- For the Jayhawks, that's a lot of dirty laundry in the press. Wow! I wonder if that was pre-cleanup Gary, and if it was, I wonder if now-clean Gary has any regrets. Maybe he does; maybe he doesn't!

From the article:

“A lot of things kind of hit the wall” from 2010 to 2012, Louris said in a video interview to promote HazelFest. “I was so self-centered. Everything was about me. I couldn’t function. I think I probably had a mental breakdown.”

Icehaid
09-02-2014, 05:31 PM
when the guy who:

1. founded the band

2. named it

3. wrote most of the songs

...asks for someone to not use the name, it's probably time to move on, respectfully.


It just doesn't look good. The post-Olson years don't seem to appeal to anyone below 45, and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

Oy, the tumor has returned to the Board. Oh well. Soooo anyway:

1. Olson sounds like a jealous, petulant child.

2. Shouldn't you be off at Yellowstone sticking your face in Old Faithful this time of year?

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 05:48 PM
Some reactions to this article, and also the posts here:

- Having said that, the relatively brief Mark II era did not lead to great success for the band - and it certainly didn't lead to an exciting era on this board.

Actually there were way more posts on this forum around Ready for the Flood and Mockingbird Time.

The response to the "Smile" lineup has been very weak here, with posts trickling in.

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 05:52 PM
That said, regardless of however the StarTribune got wind of the situation initially, Mark certainly seemed to be dishing it out without restraint. It's unclear why, other than simply to vent, since he talks about "making amends" but also states "I don’t ever want to see Gary Louris again". Those two things don't jive. What was he trying to accomplish?

It's timed right alongside the release of his new album, so you be the judge.


2. Uh, what? The person who named the band is important how? Are you suggesting that Led Zeppelin should have never existed since Keith Moon, who came up with the name, was never in the band?

This is a terrible analogy. Olson founded the band and named it. And when he asks for the name not to be used, it should be at least considered.



As far as not appealing to anyone under the age of 45, the fans I've seen and talked to would suggest otherwise. Do you have anything to substantiate that claim, or did you just make it up? Where is this mass of fans that enjoys the albums with Mark but not the albums without him?

They showed up at the last tour, when The Jayhawks with Olson were playing much larger venues and festivals.

This whole "reissue" thing feels like Spinal Tap's jazz odyssey.



As I've said before, if I had the choice of going to see Mark or Gary solo, my choice would be Gary in a heartbeat. That said, there are definitely lots of Mark songs that I like quite a bit; Pray For Me is one of my favorites from the band. I don't think it's fair to Mark to be trashing him, other than to say it's an unfortunate situation and Mark's response to it seems to be questionable at best.


I wouldn't see either live these days. The Mockingbird Time tour was the best I've seen them since the Smile tour. Everything else has been meh. The energy just isn't there. I did enjoy the Salvation Blues tour with Olson when he had Jimmy Hey on drums, but I'm not big on the duo he has going now.

sacred roots
09-02-2014, 08:39 PM
when the guy who:

1. founded the band

2. named it

3. wrote most of the songs

...asks for someone to not use the name, it's probably time to move on, respectfully.


It just doesn't look good. The post-Olson years don't seem to appeal to anyone below 45, and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

And what age group does a guy wearing grandpa vests and ugly sweaters appeal to? OK, sorry that was a cheap shot...

2 of these 3 above statements are factually incorrect. Olson was not the sole namer of the band (hint: the one guy in the band who's been there every second of its existence and is the biggest fan of The Band/The Hawks in the world, and who also is one of the legal owners of the name, might have had something to do with it) and while Olson no doubt dominated the songwriting for the first few years, "most" is a wildly inaccurate overall assessment. By the early 90s, the songwriting was essentially evenly split and if we want to look at the band's most commercially successful and popular songs - not to mention the totality of the band's 29 year existence - Louris is the clear winner.

As for the band's commercial success post-Olson, the band did just fine 15 years ago and they're doing just fine now. The recent Euro tour and selected US summer dates went great and ticket sales are strong for the upcoming US tour. Fans seem to be actually excited to see a vibrant, engaged band not bogged down by internal strife, something born out by the near universal praise for this years shows to be found in the social media, something that most definitely wasn't the case a few years ago (especially in 2012). Also, unlike the 2009-2012 version of the band, the current lineup is performing music from all eras of the band's long history while, understandably, concentrating on the material from the recent reissues, making for a much more pleasurable fan experience.

Oh yeah, for the record, the attendance at the "rehab clinic" was 1500-2000 at a second year festival in a location an hour away from MSP where no booze was served. Speaking of which, the implication that playing a "rehab clinic" is somehow a "bad" billing (ala Spinal Tap playing an afternoon tea party at an Air Force Base) is particularly offensive and only an ignorant, insensitive troll would make that disparagement given Gary's very public and brave dealings with substance abuse and recovery in recent years and his subsequent dedication to helping the recovery community whenever possible.

As for the age old name dispute... A case could be made that the name should've been changed in 1996 and Gary publicly stated exactly that on more than one occasion during that time. However the record company left them no choice: either continue on or make your record somewhere else (this is addressed in the liner notes on the recent SOL reissue). For better or worse (depending on your point of view) the world got 3 more Jayhawks records from 1997-2003, records that are widely loved and praised (anyone who followed the band during that period knows that this is beyond dispute).

The band in its current lineup has every right to earn a living supporting albums that were made after Olson had quit the band, and to do so using a name they are perfectly - and legally - entitled to use. For someone to take issue with that - and to use vague, unsubstantiated "promises" as evidence - says a lot more about that person than his former bandmates. Similarly, making light of someone's recovery and mentioning an incident were you physically bully a partner and supposed friend to the point of a breakdown isn't exactly a way to make yourself come off as very sympathetic - or even rational. (note to Olson: hire a new PR person, stat!).

Bitterness and negativity are terrible personality traits and will surely pave the way to estrangement from proper society, not to mention a surefire way to guarantee an increasingly irrelevant career.

lukpac
09-02-2014, 08:50 PM
I wouldn't see either live these days. The Mockingbird Time tour was the best I've seen them since the Smile tour. Everything else has been meh. The energy just isn't there.

To each their own, and I'm sure even plenty of Gary fans will disagree with me, but I've found the Gary and "Gary and friends" shows over the past few years far more entertaining than the shows with the 1995 lineup. The relatively static setlists of the full band shows didn't help. As always, I hesitate to be too critical, because I don't want it to seem like I'm ragging on the band, but "meh" is what I often felt at the full band shows.

Also, thumbs up to PD's post.

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 09:06 PM
And what age group does a guy wearing grandpa vests and ugly sweaters appeal to? OK, sorry that was a cheap shot...

And how is that any different from Gary's Dana Carvey Church Lady look?



something born out by the near universal praise for this years shows to be found in the social media, something that most definitely wasn't the case a few years ago (especially in 2012).

I'd say the Jayhawk's Facebook presence has grown considerably since then (Like's etc), so not really a fair comparison.


Also, unlike the 2009-2012 version of the band, the current lineup is performing music from all eras of the band's long history while, understandably, concentrating on the material from the recent reissues, making for a much more pleasurable fan experience.

I'd disagree there. I found the Mockingbird time tour setlist much more interesting. Then again, I like rock music, whereas the post TTGG stuff is more like muzak.


Speaking of which, the implication that playing a "rehab clinic" is somehow a "bad" billing (ala Spinal Tap playing an afternoon tea party at an Air Force Base) is particularly offensive and only an ignorant


There are much worse things than addiction. Like ebola, or dementia, or stroke. And you don't have to work at those for years to get them, nor do you choose them.


The band in its current lineup has every right to earn a living supporting albums that were made after Olson had quit the band, and to do so using a name they are perfectly - and legally - entitled to use. For someone to take issue with that - and to use vague, unsubstantiated "promises" as evidence

So Olson and his manager are lying?



Bitterness and negativity are terrible personality traits and will surely pave the way to estrangement from proper society, not to mention a surefire way to guarantee an increasingly irrelevant career.

It sounds like Olson really struck a nerve.

Regardless of who did what, or what the bottom line truth is here, or who's self-centered or who's bitter, Olson's wishes, as founder of the band and name, should be respected.

It's time to hang the Jayhawks up. As a longtime fan of both sides, I think it's embarrassing, and classless to continue on for the second time, as if nothing was learned.

sacred roots
09-02-2014, 10:02 PM
And how is that any different from Gary's Dana Carvey Church Lady look?

C'mon, Gary's hot. One of the female radio hosts on a session Gary did this morning said so.


I'd say the Jayhawk's Facebook presence has grown considerably since then (Like's etc), so not really a fair comparison.

Nope, hardly grown at all since 2011. The metrics on the band's FB page (likes, shares, etc) were off the hook after the reissues and tour announcements earlier this summer, comparable to band's who have substantially bigger FB fan numbers (like Wilco, for instance, who have roughly 10x the number of FB fans as the Jayhawks). They certainly blew away the numbers - adjusted for # of fans - for anything during the MT era. I do this shit for a living - trust me.


I'd disagree there. I found the Mockingbird time tour setlist much more interesting. Then again, I like rock music, whereas the post TTGG stuff is more like muzak.

Tomato / tomahto. Pointless to argue tastes, but I do know - and have the evidence to back it up - that the number of people who complained about no SOL/Smile/RDM material being performed during 2009-2012 was substantial - and I continue to hear it to this day, long after that era has ended. In comparison, you can count on one hand the number of people who have complained about the lack of HTH/TTGG material in recent set lists - or for Olson not being in the band for that matter. The truth is that the MT era created an "elephant in the corner" situation that eventually crippled the band. You and others may prefer not to hear the SOL/Smile/RDM material performed live - and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. But you have to be delusional to deny that a significant number of people do want to hear that material, something totally understandable with a band like The Jayhawks who have generated fans for all eras of their long career, even ones that you don't like. Call me crazy, but I don't think it's exactly career suicide to offer up a setlist that makes some attempt to cover all eras of your output.


There are much worse things than addiction. Like ebola, or dementia, or stroke. And you don't have to work at those for years to get them, nor do you choose them.

Wow, are you serious? Do people choose to get cancer? Dementia? Do people choose to become addicted? Speaking as someone who has lost family and dear friends through addiction I can't imagine how screwed up a person must be to say something like that. Yeah, people just decide to become addicts all the time. Can you really be that insensitive and uncaring? If so, you're pretty much a horrible human being and I have no hesitation in saying that.


So Olson and his manager are lying?

The proof is in the pudding. The Jayhawks just reissued three albums and are on the road supporting them billed as The Jayhawks, as is their right, while Olson is slinging dirty laundry in the press.

To repeat: The Jayhawks have every legal - and moral - right to earn a living promoting albums they made under that name, regardless of who's in the band. If Olson doesn't like that he's entitled to pursue whatever legal remedies he has at his disposal, a situation that hasn't changed since 1996 when The Jayhawks continued on without him for almost a decade. The fact that he hasn't done anything since 1996 speaks volumes.


It sounds like Olson really struck a nerve.

Oh god no! This story has been in the works for 9 months and rehashes events that took place up to 4 years ago. It's ancient history in every sense of the word except for those who choose to be consumed by negativity and bitterness. The band is so far over this that it's not even funny. They haven't even given it a thought for several months until the recent article in the Strib. Nobody in the band gives 2 shits about this "story" because nobody in the band is living in the past. Everybody couldn't be more excited about the reissues and playing live shows that are actually fun for everyone involved, including the audiences. The difference between 2014 and 2012 is palpable - and profound.

Regardless of who did what, or what the bottom line truth is here, or who's self-centered or who's bitter, Olson's wishes, as founder of the band and name, should be respected.

Please re-read my earlier post. Olson didn't name the band alone and he certainly doesn't legally own the name.

As for respect, thats a two way street, a concept that evidently is beyond the grasp of some people.

It's time to hang the Jayhawks up.

You're free to move on anytime you want. I'm sure the band and its many fans will somehow find a way to survive without you.

sacred roots
09-02-2014, 10:25 PM
As a longtime fan of both sides, I think it's embarrassing, and classless to continue on for the second time, as if nothing was learned.

Embarrassing? What about the fact that 3 of their best albums were out of print and a record company actually had enough faith to reissue them, just like HTH and TTGG (which, btw, are out of print - again). What was the band supposed to do, say no? And if you release something, doesn't it make sense to promote it by playing some live shows - maybe even with a period-appropriate lineup? Do you think the Jayhawks are independently wealthy? Why shouldn't they be able to tour to support records they made using the name they made them with? Are you trying to deny them the right to do the same thing they did when Olson was in the band a few years ago? I love it when people feel entitled to tell other people how they should or shouldn't earn a living, especially musicians in the current music biz climate.

And, don't kid yourself, The Jayhawks have learned plenty the last few years.

sevens
09-02-2014, 10:42 PM
One of the most interesting claims from Olson in the article is that he wrote 95% of MT. This record always sounded to me like about a 50/50 split. I personally really enjoy Marks writing - but this surprises me.

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 10:53 PM
C'mon, Gary's hot. One of the female radio hosts on a session Gary did this morning said so.

I didn't knock his looks. I just don't think it's fair to judge Olson's old time granpappy act when Louris has a little church lady going on.




Nope, hardly grown at all since 2011. The metrics on the band's FB page (likes, shares, etc) were off the hook after the reissues and tour announcements earlier this summer, comparable to band's who have substantially bigger FB fan numbers (like Wilco, for instance, who have roughly 10x the number of FB fans as the Jayhawks). They certainly blew away the numbers - adjusted for # of fans - for anything during the MT era. I do this shit for a living - trust me.

I've been visiting the page for a long time, and the Likes really ramped up during Mockingbird Time and the festivals. The last two years have added even more.




Tomato / tomahto. Pointless to argue tastes, but I do know - and have the evidence to back it up - that the number of people who complained about no SOL/Smile/RDM material being performed during 2009-2012 was substantial - and I continue to hear it to this day, long after that era has ended.


And no doubt the people calling for Olson to return was also substantial after he left (myself included). This forum is just one sample size.


In comparison, you can count on one hand the number of people who have complained about the lack of HTH/TTGG material in recent set lists - or for Olson not being in the band for that matter.

I, and everyone I know who is into the alternative music scene were extremely disappointed that Olson left. These are the people who showed up during the Mockingbird Time tour, when there was quite the buzz, and the Jayhawks actually had new material out.



The truth is that the MT era created an "elephant in the corner" situation that eventually crippled the band. You and others may prefer not to hear the SOL/Smile/RDM material performed live - and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion.

I never said that. There are some great songs there. The problem with that era was consistency. Gary was amazing at bringing three or so five star caliber tracks, and Olson's steady songwriting filled in the rest.

Now, for every "Angelyne" there's a "Come to the River" or "Madman". Not to mention faux-Lennon clunkers like "Don't Let the World Get In your Way".



But you have to be delusional to deny that a significant number of people do want to hear that material, something totally understandable with a band like The Jayhawks who have generated fans for all eras of their long career, even ones that you don't like. Call me crazy, but I don't think it's exactly career suicide to offer up a setlist that makes some attempt to cover all eras of your output.



Something happened to the Jayhawks when Olson left, and it happened to him, too. The Jayhawks need a producer, a whip-master. The songs became draggier, slower tempo, less tight, less focused, and sort of clunky. They were at their best when they almost had that At San Quentin speed thing going.

They had great energy on the Smile tour, and despite whatever went on behind the scenes during Mockingbird time, the energy was back big time.


Wow, are you serious? Do people choose to get cancer? Dementia? Do people choose to become addicted? Speaking as someone who has lost family and dear friends through addiction I can't imagine how screwed up a person must be to say something like that. Yeah, people just decide to become addicts all the time. Can you really be that insensitive and uncaring? If so, you're pretty much a horrible human being and I have no hesitation in saying that.

Sorry, I've worked with dementia patients that didn't drink or do drugs their entire lives. I've met kids with cancer, who never took drugs or drank.

Please don't lump in addiction with diseases that choose YOU. These kids didn't go to a pharmacy or a bar for a year and order up scripts or vodka and practice.

You don't work at getting dementia or cancer. You don't consciously choose, over months and years, day in and day out to get those diseases.




The proof is in the pudding. The Jayhawks just reissued three albums and are on the road supporting them billed as The Jayhawks, as is their right, while Olson is slinging dirty laundry in the press.

Sure, that is their right. And it's my right (and others I know) to find it unseemly.


The fact that he hasn't done anything since 1996 speaks volumes.

Yes, it does. But not in the way you think.




The band is so far over this that it's not even funny. They haven't even given it a thought for several months until the recent article in the Strib. Nobody in the band gives 2 shits about this "story" because nobody in the band is living in the past.


Right. No one in the band is living in the past. They're only touring on three recently-out-of-print albums from a decade+ ago.

Meanwhile, Olson is releasing an album of all new music this month.

What was it you said about "pudding"? ;)

girl incognito1
09-02-2014, 10:57 PM
To each their own, and I'm sure even plenty of Gary fans will disagree with me, but I've found the Gary and "Gary and friends" shows over the past few years far more entertaining than the shows with the 1995 lineup. The relatively static setlists of the full band shows didn't help. As always, I hesitate to be too critical, because I don't want it to seem like I'm ragging on the band, but "meh" is what I often felt at the full band shows.

Also, thumbs up to PD's post.

They are a personal favorite of mine too. They were fun and I hope Gary does more of them. :cool::cool::cool:

Two thumbs up for PD's post!!!!:cool:;):D

girl incognito1
09-02-2014, 11:03 PM
There are much worse things than addiction. Like ebola, or dementia, or stroke. And you don't have to work at those for years to get them, nor do you choose them.



What an ignorant statement!!!! I bet you never had anyone close to you go through an addiction. Shame on you!

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 11:05 PM
What an ignorant statement!!!! I bet you never had anyone close to you go through an addiction. Shame on you!

There are much worse things than addiction. Much, much worse. There are brave little kids with terminal or disfiguring illnesses, who never hung out at dive bars or shot heroin who are going through much, much worse.

Pray for them, not the healthy people who day in and day out piss their lives away.

girl incognito1
09-02-2014, 11:06 PM
C'mon, Gary's hot. One of the female radio hosts on a session Gary did this morning said so.


He he... :cool::p;):D We already know that!!!!

girl incognito1
09-02-2014, 11:08 PM
There are much worse things than addiction. Much, much worse. There are brave little kids with terminal or disfiguring illnesses, who never hung out at dive bars or shot heroin who are going through much, much worse.

Pray for them, not the healthy people who day in and day out piss their lives away.

Please don't get me started. You are talking out of your butt. (as a mom I do have a heart for kids, but as someone who lost family to addiction and suicide in recent years this is below the fing belt.) Knock it off.

Gary is brave for coming out and fighting!

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 11:10 PM
Girl -

I'm not disputing the braveness of conquering addition. All I'm saying is there are far worse things. When you haven't experienced those things, or seen your family experience them, addiction may seem like the worst thing in the world.

BTW, nice to see the board picking up again as soon as Olson's name is back in the mix.....

It's been a few years since there was anything interesting to talk about in Jayhawk's land.

BluesisBlood
09-02-2014, 11:13 PM
So that wasn't a typo in the article? Mark gave this interview last winter? Weird. I wonder if it was agreed upon that the Strib wouldn't run it til it coincided with 'big' Jayhawks news.

sacred roots
09-02-2014, 11:18 PM
I, and everyone I know who is into the alternative music scene were extremely disappointed that Olson left. These are the people who showed up during the Mockingbird Time tour, when there was quite the buzz, and the Jayhawks actually had new material out.

Funny, my experience has been just the opposite. Which, just like your statement, proves nothing.


They had great energy on the Smile tour, and despite whatever went on behind the scenes during Mockingbird time, the energy was back big time.

Classic YMMV situation. You're opinion about the MT tour is diametrically opposed to what I've encountered. By the end of the 2012 tour something was clearly rotten in Denmark.


Sorry, I've worked with dementia patients that didn't drink or do drugs their entire lives. I've met kids with cancer, who never took drugs or drank.

Please don't lump in addiction with diseases that choose YOU. These kids didn't go to a pharmacy or a bar for a year and order up scripts or vodka and practice.

You don't work at getting dementia or cancer. You don't consciously choose, over months and years, day in and day out to get those diseases.

Pure ignorant drivel. You don't choose addiction any more than you choose any other disease. Yes, it's a disease and yes it chooses you - facts that are beyond dispute in the medical community. I feel nothing but pity for anyone who
doesn't see that. Your shocking lack of knowledge and compassion is truly appalling.



Meanwhile, Olson is releasing an album of all new music this month.

Yes, I'm sure he'll be thrilling audiences by the millions on his upcoming tour.

Brown Jenkin
09-02-2014, 11:23 PM
I noticed you dodged the "living in the past" comments. And wisely so.

BTW, addiction is built by habituation and repetition. Alzheimer's is not. An Alzheimer patient does not sit on a bar stool and order up a round of dementia.

I hope nothing truly bad happens to you or loved ones so you have to see this reality. You can't go into a rehab center and make yourself better. That's it, man. You get dementia, stroke, or alzheimers and you're done.

Yes, I'm sure he'll be thrilling audiences by the dozen on his upcoming tour.

BTW, I'm not sure if you work for the band or not (it seems like you do), but this doesn't come off very well. Whatever you want to think about Olson, the Jayhawks don't exist without him.

NewGuy
09-02-2014, 11:30 PM
What about the fact that 3 of their best albums were out of print and a record company actually had enough faith to reissue them, just like HTH and TTGG (which, btw, are out of print - again). What was the band supposed to do, say no? And if you release something, doesn't it make sense to promote it by playing some live shows - maybe even with a period-appropriate lineup? Do you think the Jayhawks are independently wealthy? Why shouldn't they be able to tour to support records they made using the name they made them with? Are you trying to deny them the right to do the same thing they did when Olson was in the band a few years ago?

I found this to be quite puzzling to me as well. I just don't quite understand what purpose retiring the band name would serve. Even if the shoe were on the other foot and say that Gary felt it necessary (say for health reasons) to step away from the band while all other members wanted to continue to tour, I would have a similar sentiment that it would seem a bit petty to deny your former colleagues the opportunity to earn a living for themselves...especially for a working band that isn't independently wealthy.

The other part that I found a bit humorous was Mark looking for Gary to make amends and offer an apology after he completed rehab. It reminds me of one of the one episodes from Seinfeld where George did not get an appropriate apology from James Spader's character that was going through the 12 step program.

Life's just too short to hold grudges. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the opportunity to see three great live performances in Minneapolis/St. Paul (Jayhawks, Paul Weller, and the Replacements) in less than a 10 day span...and best of luck to Mark Olson in all of his future endeavors.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 12:35 AM
I noticed you dodged the "living in the past" comments. And wisely so.

Not dodging anything. Sure The Jayhawks are supporting reissued albums but that certainly doesn't mean they're literally living in the past. I was referring to their day to day lives - the here and now. They are looking forwards, not backwards.


BTW, addiction is built by habituation and repetition. Alzheimer's is not. An Alzheimer patient does not sit on a bar stool and order up a round of dementia.

I hope nothing truly bad happens to you or loved ones so you have to see this reality. You can't go into a rehab center and make yourself better. That's it, man. You get dementia, stroke, or alzheimers and you're done.

Again, despicable lies. I personally have had experience with some of the conditions you mentioned and the ignorance you portray is beneath contempt.


BTW, I'm not sure if you work for the band or not (it seems like you do), but this doesn't come off very well.

You mean in the same way that Olson and his manger don't come off very well in the Strib article? It's pretty hilarious to be lectured in civility by you. Seems like I struck a nerve, huh? At least I'm not slagging someone's recovery or publicly rehashing trivial internal band matters that should remain private. To be clear, I'm not speaking for the band. I'm speaking for myself. Like you, I'm entitled to my own opinion. If the band has a problem with what I'm saying I'll be sure to let you know.


Whatever you want to think about Olson, the Jayhawks don't exist without him.

Bullshit. The band has existed without him before, is existing without him now and will continue to exist without him in the future. Open your eyes.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 12:40 AM
BTW, I'm not sure if you work for the band or not (it seems like you do), but this doesn't come off very well.

OK, I changed it for you. Happy?


Yes, I'm sure he'll be thrilling audiences by the millions on his upcoming tour.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 12:52 AM
So that wasn't a typo in the article? Mark gave this interview last winter? Weird. I wonder if it was agreed upon that the Strib wouldn't run it til it coincided with 'big' Jayhawks news.

That is correct. The work on this article began 9 months ago and the end result - after being whittled down by the lawyers I'm sure - finally came out last week. The events referenced in the story are even older, some dating back to 2010 (the grudges held by Olson appear to date back even further). Why the Strib chose to run it now is a question that only the editors over there could answer.

BTW, the "disharmony" (clever!) article ran in conjunction with a piece that I guess was designed to balance things:

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/273082381.html

JoMama
09-03-2014, 05:30 AM
One of the MANY contributors to Alzheimer's (which itself is an umbrella term for over 75 types of dementia) is alcoholism. Not alcohol alone, but the behaviour of alcoholism; the mental processing. The point being that "I'm an angry old man..." is not a way to live life, and if you see it in yourself, get some help. For you trolls out there, watch yourselves. You might end up with symptoms of this. Get over your anger issues. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
A good way to get over anger issues is to attend a Jayhawks show.

I miss Mark Olson, and the magic, but the drama we can all live without.
I'm excited to see they're coming here to Asheville, and a few nearby cities next month, when driving through the mountains during the fall leaf-turning time will be awesome in itself.

JoMama
09-03-2014, 08:35 AM
I am super happy that that fucker is no longer a part of the great band The Jayhawks.

He may be the worst singer in the history of the world. And I say that fully knowing that I've heard Axe sing.

Rock on Real Jayhawks, rock on.

"some classy shit going on here" -AXE

lukpac
09-03-2014, 10:35 AM
BTW, I'm not sure if you work for the band or not (it seems like you do)

Wow.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 10:50 AM
Bullshit. The band has existed without him before, is existing without him now and will continue to exist without him in the future. Open your eyes.


Context, Roots.

Olson created the band and named them. They do not exist without Mark Olson.

How utterly bizarre to trash the guy, and then use the name he created.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 11:28 AM
Olson created the band and named them. They do not exist without Mark Olson.

They are currently existing without Mark Olson.

And your reading comprehension seems to be lacking.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Luk, I'd bow out.

In order for something to exist, it has to be created.

Just weird vibes all around. Skeevy vibes. Even skeevier, no new material while continuing to use the name.

They had new material for the duo acoustic tour, and new material for Mockingbird Time. What we're seeing at First Ave is an oldies act trying to recapture their glory days, using a name that the band's founder doesn't want them to use (or at least didn't want them to during an interview from a year ago).

Bad vibes.

bryguy
09-03-2014, 11:59 AM
You know, all this is missing is Pillow pants. JK

Bad feelings and grudges are interesting thing. Who's responsible for what in all of this is only known be a small group of people I suppose. The older I get, the harder it is to hold on to that kind of stuff. Mark and Gary may never sing together again, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make this right one day. We probably won't know about it, which is exactly as it should be

Runningpotleaf
09-03-2014, 12:06 PM
and they're playing shows to 20 people at a rehab clinic.

when did this happen? Did I miss a show somewhere there old PP ??

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 12:10 PM
Troll accomplished his goal - bites and bites and bites. At least people are talking. It's fun sometimes to beat the shit out of morons, even when you know they're just playing Skinner Box with you.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 12:41 PM
Luk, I'd bow out.

Yet you still haven't. Why is that?

In order for something to exist, it has to be created.

The Rolling Stones were founded by Brian Jones, who was subsequently fired and then died. What's your point?

Just weird vibes all around. Skeevy vibes. Even skeevier, no new material while continuing to use the name.

They had new material for the duo acoustic tour, and new material for Mockingbird Time. What we're seeing at First Ave is an oldies act trying to recapture their glory days, using a name that the band's founder doesn't want them to use (or at least didn't want them to during an interview from a year ago).

Bad vibes.

So, like all of the shows the band played after they reformed until the release of Mockingbird Time?

Three people - all of whom, for all intents and purposes, were "founding members" - own the name. Two of those people want to continue using the name.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 01:07 PM
Yet you still haven't. Why is that?



The Rolling Stones were founded by Brian Jones, who was subsequently fired and then died. What's your point?

Right. He died.


"He formed the band. He chose the members. He named the band. He chose the music we played. He got us gigs. ... Very influential, very important." - Bill Wyman





So, like all of the shows the band played after they reformed until the release of Mockingbird Time?

The principal songwriters had new material and worked together on albums (Ready for the Flood, The Salvation Blues). So bad comparison.

BluesisBlood
09-03-2014, 01:17 PM
I never got the chance to see the 2009-2012 lineup. I refused to attend the Basillica gig in July 2009 because for some idiotic reason they booked The Jayhawks and The Black Crowes at the same time, which infuriated me. So I protested by not seeing either band that night.

Of course, there were plenty of other opportunities but, I don't know, just never got around to seeing them in the Mockingbird Time years.
The last time I saw Mark and Gary was at the 400 Bar in August 2007 and it's still one of my favorite shows. What a performance...side note: I was standing behind Gary when he walked in that night and the punk rock door lady stopped him and said there was a $15 cover or whatever. And Gary politely said, 'I'm playing tonight.'

Anyway, I'm wondering if the tension that obvious on stage during these years?

And did anyone actually witness this exchange between Mark and Gary onstage in Spain?

I've gone back on this board to read some old show reviews from those tours, and there are comments about Mark acting aloof (strange James Brown stuff?) on stage but nothing that would indicate this level of acrimony.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 01:31 PM
Right. He died.

Not before he was fired. Mick Taylor was already working with the band at the time of Jones' death.

Olson left. Twice. That was his choice. Not his fault that the band wants to continue whether he's a part of it or not.

The principal songwriters had new material and worked together on albums (Ready for the Flood, The Salvation Blues). So bad comparison.

Yet the band was not playing that material live. So it is entirely irrelevant.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 01:34 PM
Let's all play the selective facts game!

BJ has said 3 times that Olson named the band and for the third time (and more if I have to) I will state that that statement is incorrect. Implying that he somehow has more rights to the name than the legal owners displays a logic that is escaping me at this moment but, what the hell, I never cease to be surprised in what I see online these days. As someone said earlier, it seems "petty" to deny former bandmates the right to earn a living doing something they're absolutely entitled to do. "Petty" is being kind IMO. I applaud the Jayhawks for resolutely taking the high road in this affair because the best way to get shit to stick to you in the PR biz is to be the one slinging it.

As for the "verbal promises" thing, I'll just say that - like respect - that's a two way street. You get what you give in this life and I think that virtually all sane people know which way the wind is blowing in this sordid affair. There's so much more to this story than what oozed out on the page last Friday, details that hopefully will remain private because that's exactly where they belong. And kudos to the Strib for shutting down the comments section after a self-proclaimed relative of Olson made unsubstantiated, potentially libelous, comments that show just how desperate and off the bubble his camp has become.


The Jayhawks from 2008-2011, until the release of MT, were also an "oldies" band, "living in the past" and playing no new material. Exact same situation as now, but guess where some people direct their angst. Shocking! Funny how that works.. MT was originally intended to be an O/L album; if that would've transpired, the last year of the MT era (2012) would've never occurred for The Jayhawks which, in retrospect, would've been better for all parties.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 01:37 PM
And did anyone actually witness this exchange between Mark and Gary onstage in Spain?


It didn't occur onstage but there were several witnesses from outside of the band, all of whom were totally appalled at Olson's shocking behavior.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 01:41 PM
I never got the chance to see the 2009-2012 lineup.

Tightest I've seen them since the Smile tour. Great stuff.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 01:43 PM
As for the "verbal promises" thing, I'll just say that - like respect - that's a two way street. You get what you give in this life

I try to avoid working with people who use this cliche. Big, red flag, IMHO.




and I think that virtually all sane people know which way the wind is blowing in this sordid affair. There's so much more to this story than what oozed out on the page last Friday, details that hopefully will remain private because that's exactly where they belong. And kudos to the Strib for shutting down the comments section after a self-proclaimed relative of Olson made unsubstantiated, potentially libelous, comments that show just how desperate and off the bubble his camp has become.

Too bad I missed that.


The Jayhawks from 2008-2011, until the release of MT, were also an "oldies" band, "living in the past" and playing no new material.

Actually, they did have new material, from Louris and Olson solo albums as well as Ready for the Flood.


Exact same situation as now, but guess where some people direct their angst. Shocking! Funny how that works.. MT was originally intended to be an O/L album; if that would've transpired, the last year of the MT era (2012) would've never occurred for The Jayhawks which, in retrospect, would've been better for all parties.

Lots of bitterness to go around, it seems.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 02:07 PM
Actually, they did have new material, from Louris and Olson solo albums as well as Ready for the Flood.

Please point to where/when that material was played at Jayhawks shows during that time.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 02:11 PM
I try to avoid working with people who use this cliche. Big, red flag, IMHO.

Funny, I nicked that from Olson himself. Thought it was appropriate in this context.



Actually, they did have new material, from Louris and Olson solo albums as well as Ready for the Flood.

Gary's got a shit ton of new material right now. What's your point? The fact remains that from 2008 until the MT tour The Jayhawks played NO new material, i.e. "oldies band." Any O, L or O/L material is irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about Jayhawks material, no?


Lots of bitterness to go around, it seems.

Not on The Jayhawks end. They couldn't be happier right now. Nothing but positivity and good vibes these days, pretty much the mirror image of the situation in 2012. You'll have to take my word for it, but until last Friday nobody in the band had spent more that 2 seconds thinking about this situation. Ancient history.

People, especially those who were disappointed by what you saw in 2012: don't hesitate to go see The Jayhawks in 2014 if you get a chance; you won't regret it.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 02:29 PM
when did this happen? Did I miss a show somewhere there old PP ??

Funny, I'm chastised for making a joke about audience size...by a person who makes jokes about audience sizes! Not to mention, the same person who also disparages people in recovery and doesn't think addiction is a real disease. Can't make this shit up! It looks like some Olson apologists don't fall too far from the tree.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 02:31 PM
You're working for a band that Olson created (correct me if I'm wrong), and ripping Olson's audience size.

I'd say it's quite a different case than my criticism.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 02:33 PM
You're working for a band that Olson created (correct me if I'm wrong), and ripping Olson's audience size.

I'd say it's quite a different case than my criticism.

The truth often is painful.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 02:39 PM
(correct me if I'm wrong)

Again?

greekguy
09-03-2014, 02:40 PM
At least I never need to hear the word "univoice" again.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 02:47 PM
The truth often is painful.

You are aware that ripping the guy who created the band you work for makes you look like a bitter tool, right?

I'm not saying you are a bitter tool. I understand emotions are running high. But this is what it looks like.

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 03:10 PM
Q F F'ing T:

At least I never need to hear the word "univoice" again.

If only "Brown Jenkin" (if that really IS his name) were a better troll, this conversation would be a lot more interesting. Repeated regurgitation of demonstrably disproven "facts" is lazy trolling and leads only to circular argument. If I were him, I'd put a little more effort into his threadshitting so we could have more engaging angles to kick the ever-loving crap out of him from. This is getting tiring. No one wants to see an amateur get dismantled by a pro like BJ is facing at the hands of PD.

Come on, dude: step up your game! Have you mentioned The Flaming Lips yet (you're on ignore now that I'm logged in)?

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 03:14 PM
Careful with those carbs, Eugene.

Calexico
09-03-2014, 03:19 PM
Suffering mother of Jesus. This back and forth fuckarama is just like being transported back to 2004/5/6.

Who gives a fuck is Olson created/named/gave birth to the band? Simple fact is he agitated more than once to get the fuck out of there and he's welcome to go back to spouting his (mostly) unlistenable bollocks.


This is a bit of a shitstorm. I think everyone would have been better served by keeping their mouth shut. That includes some contributors on this board.


In interviews, written or spoken, Olson always struck me as if he felt he was the only "authentic" member of the band. He was the one carrying the torch of Gram and Townes. As if he was somehow better than everyone else in the band. In short, he always struck me as the kind of tool you would cross the room to avoid in the pub.

Retiring the band name? Honestly, no one gives a fuck. People buy tickets based on who/what they know. If they were called Exploding Testicle Talking people would say "oh yeah, they used to be The Jayhawks" and go or not based on that name recognition.

No doubt, Louris had his issues and was probably a pain in the fucking arse to get along with too at times. Most musicians are completely self involved and egocentric twats. So no one is innocent here. Shit sticks to everybody.

It's just a pity that they can't either ignore each other now or just agree to exist seperately and have done with it rather than vomiting all this fuckery into the press and written by a real dickhead too. Everything I've read from this guy gives me the impression that he feels he is Minneapolis' version of Donovan. He was instrumental in the creation of all rock music to emerge from the cold north. I'm sure he had a hand in The Beatles formation also.


Here's a fucking novel idea : If you like the band's output then go see them when they appear near you. If you don't then don't fucking bother

JoMama
09-03-2014, 03:20 PM
This message is hidden because Brown Jenkin is on your ignore list.

The Orange Peel show is a so close, Google Maps shows all three traveling methods and routes: Driving, Bike trails, and a walking route. :D

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 03:32 PM
Here's a fucking novel idea : If you like the band's output then go see them when they appear near you. If you don't then don't fucking bother

Woo hoo! Calexico's back! Spoken like a true modern gentleman, sir!

"If people come to a concert and they don't like it, they don't come again."

Isn't this where we came in?

bryguy
09-03-2014, 03:36 PM
and in other news...

Calexico
09-03-2014, 03:38 PM
Also, there's plenty other music out to listen to. For example, Ben Watt has released a gorgeous album called Hendra recently and Nick Mulvey's First Mind is another fine record. Free your mind or perhaps expand it first.

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 03:45 PM
I recommend all self-respecting Jayhawks fans of all camps pick up the excellent EP by this fine gentleman, strong in the running for Axeman's Rock & Roll Birthday 41: http://www.frankieleemusic.com/

DJS43
09-03-2014, 04:20 PM
If the Jayhawks were KISS would Mark be Ace or Peter? J/K (sorry J/K is a cliche I like to avoid...)

All of this seems so silly to me. Can we just name the current band The Jayhawks 2.0 so that dumb portion of this argument can go away?

The Jayhawks are a band that most people on the board appear to like. Can't we enjoy the current line-up of the band playing the songs they're playing now without drudging up other line-ups? It seems like some can't let go of the Olson era. We got that era twice, it was great, we didn't take if for granted the second time, it's over, let it go... Rehashing this over and over again would be like Deadheads getting pissed that Pigpen didn't play on "Touch of Grey."

From what I've observed, Mark brought up the rift with the rest of the band. Now, Gary admittedly said that he was acting like a jerk during the MT era, so I'm sure that Mark's feelings have merit. But the fact is that we have a band that doesn't necessarily like each other. So what? I, personally, am glad the current Jayhawks are taking the highroad in this fight. Makes me feel better about dropping some of my hard earned coin on their upcoming gig in Chicago.

Brown Jenkin: Dude, you love the Olson era, and you're mad about the current state of things. We get it. No need to say it over and over.

Those of us who love SOL, Smile, RDM: If we've learned one thing about this band, it's to enjoy them while they're around. Listen to the music, go to the shows and have fun.

Peace! (was that cliche?)

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 04:23 PM
The Jayhawks are a band that most people on the board appear to like. Can't we enjoy the current line-up of the band playing the songs they're playing now without drudging up other line-ups?

That's not a realistic outlook, especially considering how recent Mockingbird Time was.

It just feels classless, and is made even worse by the lack of new material.

The Jayhawks were right to move on, IMHO when Olson quit in 1996. But this new thing is just pure nonsense. The name, IMHO, has been sullied by this recent lineup instability.

It looks like no one has any idea of what to do.

greekguy
09-03-2014, 04:50 PM
Honestly that is the biggest thing that bugged me about that sniggerdly bastard coming back to try to ruin The Real Jayhawks a few years ago. The onstage attitude that seemed to indicate he thought the crowd was there to see him lead a band he was not a part of for so many years. In particular the part at one show in which he said, "Let's hear it for the band!" as if he was Gladys Knight and there may or may have not been some Pips back there backing her up.

Seems as if the arrogance he is displaying about something so trivial as the name of the band he sucked at being in would prove my perception to be a reality on that day. A day that until a few months ago I had assumed would be my last Jayhawks show before The Real Jayhawks announced this tour.

Good riddance.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 04:51 PM
It just feels classless

Mark's comments do feel classless.

The name, IMHO, has been sullied by this recent lineup instability.

Mark sullied the name by leaving? Interesting theory.

It looks like no one has any idea of what to do.

The Jayhawks appear to be doing just fine. Can't speak for Mark Olson.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 04:54 PM
In particular the part at one show in which he said, "Let's hear it for the band!" as if he was Gladys Knight and there may or may have not been some Pips back there backing her up.

Was that at the Basilica show? I remember hearing/seeing that at least once. I'm not sure if he meant to be condescending, but it certainly felt odd.

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 04:58 PM
Seems as if the arrogance he is displaying about something so trivial


This was a guy who refused to ride in an expensive tour bus, so his actions seem to contradict your perceptions.

Also, he moved to the desert and recorded albums in a shack. Maybe if he moved to Hollywood, demanded top producers and insisted on using the Jayhawks name for himself, you might have a point.

So far, Olson has never sued for the name, never used it for his own, and seems to live a simple life in rural areas. Not really "ego" red flags.

But it is nice chatting with you all again. Prior to this Olson news, this forum was dead for years.

greekguy
09-03-2014, 05:00 PM
Was that at the Basilica show?

Yup

lukpac
09-03-2014, 05:14 PM
This was a guy who refused to ride in an expensive tour bus, so his actions seem to contradict your perceptions.

How is refusing to ride in a tour bus evidence of not being arrogant?

So far, Olson has never sued for the name, never used it for his own, and seems to live a simple life in rural areas. Not really "ego" red flags.

He's never used it for his own because he doesn't have a right to.

greekguy
09-03-2014, 05:18 PM
Baby wants to take his ball and go home.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 05:41 PM
Suffering mother of Jesus. This back and forth fuckarama is just like being transported back to 2004/5/6.

Who gives a fuck is Olson created/named/gave birth to the band? Simple fact is he agitated more than once to get the fuck out of there and he's welcome to go back to spouting his (mostly) unlistenable bollocks.


This is a bit of a shitstorm. I think everyone would have been better served by keeping their mouth shut. That includes some contributors on this board.


In interviews, written or spoken, Olson always struck me as if he felt he was the only "authentic" member of the band. He was the one carrying the torch of Gram and Townes. As if he was somehow better than everyone else in the band. In short, he always struck me as the kind of tool you would cross the room to avoid in the pub.

Retiring the band name? Honestly, no one gives a fuck. People buy tickets based on who/what they know. If they were called Exploding Testicle Talking people would say "oh yeah, they used to be The Jayhawks" and go or not based on that name recognition.

No doubt, Louris had his issues and was probably a pain in the fucking arse to get along with too at times. Most musicians are completely self involved and egocentric twats. So no one is innocent here. Shit sticks to everybody.

It's just a pity that they can't either ignore each other now or just agree to exist seperately and have done with it rather than vomiting all this fuckery into the press and written by a real dickhead too. Everything I've read from this guy gives me the impression that he feels he is Minneapolis' version of Donovan. He was instrumental in the creation of all rock music to emerge from the cold north. I'm sure he had a hand in The Beatles formation also.


Here's a fucking novel idea : If you like the band's output then go see them when they appear near you. If you don't then don't fucking bother


As always, sir, your words of wisdom cut to the quick.

For the record, Gary and the rest of The Jayhawks have absolutely not said a word about this unfortunate affair other than a very brief statement made to the Strib several months ago for the article that finally saw the light of day last week.

The statement from Gary:

I have the utmost respect for Mark Olson. We have shared many great years together as a duo and with the Jayhawks, and I look back fondly on the legacy we have left behind.

That's it, the sum total of The Jayhawks' public output on this matter. No back and forth on their part, nor any "fakery vomiting" either (nice turn of words there). The Strib chose to patch together what they did when they did because...well, I guess because that's what music journalism is these days. The band is very much ignoring the situation and is more than happy to "exist separately." They've got 3 fantastic reissues that have just been released and are concentrating on promoting them and preparing for a fall tour and, hopefully, some more dates in 2015.

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 05:44 PM
They've got 3 fantastic reissues that have just been released and are concentrating on promoting them and preparing for a fall tour and, hopefully, some more dates in 2015.

Is there an officially set release date on the vinyl reissues yet?

jacieb
09-03-2014, 05:45 PM
Quick intermission:

Hello, strangers!!! I'm loving all the activity (though it's all rather nutty). Since The Jayhawks never get out west, I still live vicariously through the board.

It's good to see the rest of the band doesn't have to get into a public feud with Mark - they have the fanpagers ready to fight the good fight (with each other!!!)

And Cale, I always try to read your BRILLIANT posts with an appropriate accent from the land of Cork. I especially like the way you say "f*ck", which I imagine is a bit more like "foock" rather than my local "fuhck".

(Sorry for the swears, though they were in context.)

Carry on...

Brown Jenkin
09-03-2014, 05:45 PM
The Jayhawks have absolutely not said a word about this unfortunate affair other than a very brief statement made to the Strib several months ago

Why would they? It would only draw attention to Olson's claim, which some consider valid.

I'd avoid talking about it too if I was in the band. It has a De-legetimizing power. I'd probably sweep it under the rug of denial and move on.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 05:51 PM
But this new thing is just pure nonsense. The name, IMHO, has been sullied by this recent lineup instability.

It looks like no one has any idea of what to do.

Do you ignore things that have been previously written on purpose or...wait, don't answer that.

What is "nonsense" about a group of musicians who made 3 albums touring to support reissues of those album using the name they were released under? What are they supposed to do, stay home? Tons of bands would kill for a chance to have a record company reissue their records and have the chance to go on tour to support them. Your bias is obviously clouding your judgement but this is the way the record biz works, even in this compromised era.

You're free to think that the band name has been sullied but I'm afraid you're in a very very small minority there.

The band totally has an "idea of what to do" and they're doing it. Reissue albums (as part of a long term project that was formulated, approved and funded long before Olson rejoined the band BTW). Promote said albums. Tour to support said albums. Repeat if necessary. Exactly the same thing they did for HTH/TTGG. Exactly. You could possibly be the only person in the universe who doesn't get this but, then again, what else is new.

axeeugene
09-03-2014, 05:53 PM
You could possibly be the only person in the universe who doesn't get this but, then again, what else is new.

Oh he gets it. He's just a troll, and trolls deserve to be derided, not engaged. Point and laugh; don't argue.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 05:56 PM
Is there an officially set release date on the vinyl reissues yet?

Sept 30, knock on wood. Virtually the entire UMe reissue calendar for August had their vinyl release dates pushed back because of Vinyl Mania, which shows no signs of abating.

BTW, vinyl editions of HTH and TTGG will also be re-released on this day so all 5 of the band's major label albums will be available at the same time on vinyl - a truly momentous occasion.

Sadly, the Sony/Legacy CD reissues of HTH and TTGG from just a few years ago are out of print. Again. As is the North Country Anthology. The fact that Rubin and American Recordings have changed label affiliations every 3 or 4 years is not helping catalog availability for bands like The Jayhawks.

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 05:59 PM
Why would they? It would only draw attention to Olson's claim, which some consider valid.


Seriously? The only people that think Olson comes off well in that article are his family and his manager. And you, I guess.

bryguy
09-03-2014, 06:04 PM
jacieb- been a while :-).

sacred roots
09-03-2014, 06:09 PM
You are aware that ripping the guy who created the band you work for makes you look like a bitter tool, right?

I'm not saying you are a bitter tool. I understand emotions are running high. But this is what it looks like.

Well, to set your mind at ease, I'm not bitter. There's nothing worth getting bitter about.

And, all kidding aside, I've always been a fan of Olson and his music during his tenure with The Jayhawks and that applies to the vast majority of his solo output, too. His importance to The Jayhawks can't be denied or underestimated and his position as a key figure in the post-punk musical world is secure. The MT era started out with the best of intentions; it's extremely unfortunate that it ended the way it did. And, in spite of his recent actions, I also bear no ill will towards him personally and only wish him the best in the future.

J. Chamberlain
09-03-2014, 07:54 PM
Here's something I'd like to know, will the Jayhawks be recording a new album with the Kraig Johnson lineup? That'd be cool. I would prefer to have a new album, rather than a reissue from some another time. That's just me. I'm not a big reissue person. I am gonna pick up the remastered RDM, however. That one I'm really looking forward to hearing with the improved sound quality.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 07:59 PM
Here's something I'd like to know, will the Jayhawks be recording a new album with the Kraig Johnson lineup? That'd be cool. I would prefer to have a new album, rather than a reissue from some another time. That's just me. I'm not a big reissue person. I am gonna pick up the remastered RDM, however. That one I'm really looking forward to hearing with the improved sound quality.

At least as of about a month ago, Gary said there were no current plans and he couldn't see it happening, but that he wouldn't rule anything out either.

J. Chamberlain
09-03-2014, 08:00 PM
Good to know they're not ruling it out. Thanks for the response.

J. Chamberlain
09-03-2014, 09:57 PM
And the Kraig Johnson era is great, too. It was. So I think it will be again. Prediction: new Jayhawks album with Kraig Johnson. "Not ruling anything out" sounds like they're gonna do it. Right? I bet they will.

lukpac
09-03-2014, 10:33 PM
"I don't foresee making another record. I just don't have that Brett Favre syndrome, feeling like 'why don't they just, you know, why don't they just let it go?' But, on the other hand, I've done that before, I've closed the door, and just, found out, hey, I don't know how I'm going to feel next year. I just don't. So, maybe there's a spark of inspiration. Maybe we have such a great time in Europe, like 'hey, let's get the band back together!'...I don't know, I don't foresee it. I certainly wouldn't do it out of desperation. I would do it if there was really something; I've learned my lesson, with Mockingbird Time. You just can't necessarily capture that, re-capture that chemistry. You have to have everybody all in, as a team and really have, and be into something and not do it because you feel like you should, because you have reissues. So, I'm a little bit, um, I've been a little burnt on that, as far as, a little shy about making another record after what happened in 2010, so, we'll see."

http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/06/gary-louris-of-the-jayhawks-on-revisiting-the-smile-era/

J. Chamberlain
09-03-2014, 10:39 PM
Yup. They're gonna record a new album with Kraig Johnson.

J. Chamberlain
09-03-2014, 11:15 PM
Just to clarify, I don't want to give Kraig Johnson a backhanded compliment. True, I want a new Jayhawks album, and I also want to hear the remaster of the one he wasn't on. But RDM has to be one of the worst mastered cd's of the modern era. The music itself, the writing etc. is solid. I want to hear it with the levels mastered differently, with no distortion to the sound that shouldn't be there. The acoustic instruments distort way too often, all over RDM.

I have the Golden smog stuff. SOL and Smile are great, I just don't need those in reissues. I would like to hear how Kraig is playing nowadays. He's an immense talent.

girl incognito1
09-03-2014, 11:28 PM
Sadly, the Sony/Legacy CD reissues of HTH and TTGG from just a few years ago are out of print. Again. As is the North Country Anthology. The fact that Rubin and American Recordings have changed label affiliations every 3 or 4 years is not helping catalog availability for bands like The Jayhawks.


Ugh!!! The Music business...

One of my fave Jayhawks memories was going to the Basillica show and meeting a lot of Jayhawks fans that I've never met before (heck in my journey with the Jayhawks, either solo or as a band, I've met a lot of fans and all have been gracious and nice and hell, having met the band on several occasions they all were very kind). It was an incredible experience. And going home listening to the North Country Anthology and putting the song "Help me forget" on a loop in my car. I think, for me it's memories like those are what makes this band special, no matter the line up. I think Ready for the Flood is a stellar cd/album...and MT has quite a few gems. I have Cinnamon Love as a ring tone.

OK where is the grammar police to come and arrest me???? Pfft!

girl incognito1
09-03-2014, 11:32 PM
And, all kidding aside, I've always been a fan of Olson and his music during his tenure with The Jayhawks and that applies to the vast majority of his solo output, too. His importance to The Jayhawks can't be denied or underestimated and his position as a key figure in the post-punk musical world is secure. The MT era started out with the best of intentions; it's extremely unfortunate that it ended the way it did. And, in spite of his recent actions, I also bear no ill will towards him personally and only wish him the best in the future.

Well said PD...I wish people would consider this!

J. Chamberlain
09-04-2014, 12:16 AM
I think Ready for the Flood is a stellar cd/album...and MT has quite a few gems.



That's the way I feel about those two cd's. RFTF is absolutely stellar. MT is really good, not great, IMHO.

Jedey
09-04-2014, 07:06 PM
Olson created the band and named them. They do not exist without Mark Olson.



These guys beg to differ.

The Jayhawks ~ Stranded In The Jungle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmwxbHLrvBc)

jebstuart
09-04-2014, 09:20 PM
Well things are certainly stirred up. Lordy Lordy. Reminds me of when Bre'r Rabbit told Bre'r Bear where to find the Laughing Place and ended up with a bees nest on the end of his nose. Still looking forward to the vinyl reissues and maybe a show. Not sure what to say about all of this except I do enjoy all the members of the Jayhawks and I hope they can work it out. Probably not...but that is they way it goes sometimes. Worse case scenario: we have a long legacy of great music to enjoy that will be listened to for years and years. Best case scenario: maybe somehow someway everybody can remember how fun it was to be in the know back in the 1990s about the Jayhawks. Wish all the folks in the band all the best in a God awful mess.

fortuleo
09-05-2014, 04:43 AM
Gary's got a shit ton of new material right now.

THIS, we'd like to hear !!!! Matson Tweed album is still the last "new" music he (kind of) released in more than 3 years. I need more. New music, Gary, please.

Can someone please clear out this "95% of the songwriting" claim about MT ? It doesn't sound that way to my ears. Hide your Colors, She Walks in So Many Way, Guidier Annie or Pouring rain at dawn (and more) surely sound like Louris music to my ears. Maybe Mark is referring to the lyrics ?

On the feud side, just a quick thing : we don't know shit about what happened, and shouldn't. I resent any claim that the "Real Jayhawks" are this lineup or that lineup. Both lineups are pretty "real" to my ears. As a french frustrated fan, I've travelled to London to catch the Rainy Day line up or the Creekdippers, and I've travelled to Brussels to see the MT tour. We have good train connections in Paris… And all of those were pretty "real".

I'm sad to read that Mark "doesn't want to see Gary Louris ever again" but I'm even sadder to read or hear Gary's comments about MT being a "stinker" of an album. Why "even sadder" ? Because their relationship is not my business. On the other hand, listening to MT is. And I happen to like it.

greekguy
09-05-2014, 10:04 AM
I resent any claim that the "Real Jayhawks" are this lineup or that lineup.

That's just stupid. The Real Jayhawks are alive and well. I spit on the grave of the Fake Jayhawks.

fortuleo
09-05-2014, 10:09 AM
ahahah ! But I don't resent it when it's funny!

Haggischomper
09-05-2014, 11:35 AM
Shit, my fucking Bullshit Detector just shot past 'Richie Blackmore', went beyond 'David Lee Roth' and now won't return to normal. Anyone know where I can get a new one?

bryguy
09-05-2014, 11:39 AM
ebay

greekguy
09-05-2014, 11:40 AM
I got mine on Cragslist.

Haggischomper
09-05-2014, 11:41 AM
Kraigslist?

axeeugene
09-05-2014, 12:03 PM
ahahah ! But I don't resent it when it's funny!

Greekguy funny? So it IS true - the French have no sense of humor!


Incidentally, we were remarking last night how it seems the band - but MOST ESPECIALLY Kraig Johnson - haven't seemed to age a bit in 15+ years. I bet the Johnson Brothers take baths in the blood of 100 infants to retain skintone like that.

Haggischomper, no need to adjust your device - your Bullshit Detector is working just fine, although I'm sure it's no longer the Machine That Goes 'PING!' Now it is the machine that goes 'BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEPPPPPPPP!"

lukpac
09-05-2014, 03:22 PM
Can someone please clear out this "95% of the songwriting" claim about MT ? It doesn't sound that way to my ears. Hide your Colors, She Walks in So Many Way, Guidier Annie or Pouring rain at dawn (and more) surely sound like Louris music to my ears. Maybe Mark is referring to the lyrics ?

I have no idea how the credits are actually split, but listening recently, it did feel like it had a stronger Olson influence. Which is probably why I wasn't a huge fan. I like most of his earlier work with the Jayhawks, but the more recent material I've heard is generally a bit obtuse for me.

YMMV.

bryguy
09-05-2014, 03:42 PM
Pearly hasn't aged a day! Someone referred to Gary as having the "Church Lady" look- that's messed up. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Some age with grace, some age with none. Some live with grace, some give none.

Brown Jenkin
09-05-2014, 06:47 PM
Can someone please clear out this "95% of the songwriting" claim about MT ? It doesn't sound that way to my ears. Hide your Colors, She Walks in So Many Way, Guidier Annie or Pouring rain at dawn (and more) surely sound like Louris music to my ears. Maybe Mark is referring to the lyrics ?

It sounds more like an Olson album to me, and the biggest difference is the energy level is up from RDM and Vagabonds. Olson seems to provide a bit of that Johnny Cash speed pill thing.



I'm sad to read that Mark "doesn't want to see Gary Louris ever again" but I'm even sadder to read or hear Gary's comments about MT being a "stinker" of an album. Why "even sadder" ? Because their relationship is not my business. On the other hand, listening to MT is. And I happen to like it.

It's a very good record, IMHO, and yes, what Olson said saddened me.

bryguy
09-05-2014, 07:20 PM
In the words of Rodney King: Can't we all just get along?

I bet if Gary sang "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" right to Mark, he'd bust out a big ole man-hug on Gary. Picture it.

Or how about:

Rage on, rage on my brother. Time to lay down my arms...

Brown Jenkin
09-05-2014, 08:06 PM
It really is horrible to hear about the fight. I imagine that Olson's obvious flightiness/reclusive tendencies clashed with a more gregarious but battling Gary.

Sounds like a product of bad timing.

mystic_spiral_3
09-05-2014, 09:22 PM
Best case scenario: maybe somehow someway everybody can remember how fun it was to be in the know back in the 1990s about the Jayhawks.

Learning about the Jayhawks in the 1990s WAS fun for 17-year-old me! :D I was hooked when I heard "Blue" on the radio and MTV.

zebulon
09-06-2014, 04:48 PM
It didn't occur onstage but there were several witnesses from outside of the band, all of whom were totally appalled at Olson's shocking behavior.

Sorry to tell this, but it did occur on stage. "Ready for the flood" tour, gig at "la Casa del Loco" in Zaragoza (Spain), November 28th. Don´t want to get into it, but I was shocked.

They played in my hometown, Bilbao, in September 2012, and it was, as far as my favourite band is concerned, one of the saddest time ever.

Gary, happy to see you are doing well. :)

Mark: It didn´t work. That´s all.

And The Jayhawks: keep on rocking and making our life much happier.

Calexico
09-07-2014, 02:16 PM
Sorry to tell this, but it did occur on stage. "Ready for the flood" tour, gig at "la Casa del Loco" in Zaragoza (Spain), November 28th.

See? Bloody Europeans sticking their noses in it!! :D

sacred roots
09-07-2014, 05:55 PM
Sorry to tell this, but it did occur on stage. "Ready for the flood" tour, gig at "la Casa del Loco" in Zaragoza (Spain), November 28th. Don´t want to get into it, but I was shocked.


That's not the incident that was referenced at the beginning of the recent article. I'm painfully aware of the incident you're referencing from the RFTF tour.